Nuevo Test de Stanford / Ron Davis + Noticia El País

Ari
Mensajes: 398
Registrado: 13 Sep 2016, 22:13

Nuevo Test de Stanford / Ron Davis + Noticia El País

Mensaje por Ari » 29 Abr 2019, 21:59


Hoy por fin se publica el estudio que todos esperábamos !!!!!

Un biomarcador para diagnosticar la Encefalomielitis Miálgica basado en la nanoelectrónica :

https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2019 ... 1901274116

https://sci-hub.se/10.1073/pnas.1901274116


Dia histórico !!!!!

Añado el artículo que @@Mar2 nos ha adelantado del Pais en otro hilo. Increíble !!!!

https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/04/29/ci ... 12105.html
When the full history of ME is written one day....we will all be ashamed of ourselves

Zary
Mensajes: 96
Registrado: 14 Dic 2018, 16:57

Re: Nuevo Test de Stanford / Ron Davis + Noticia El País

Mensaje por Zary » 29 Abr 2019, 23:08


@Ari
Muchas gracias por compartirlo !
Se acerca el día .... ojalá esto también pueda servir para la sqm y las demás conmorbilidades!

Raquelcy
Mensajes: 22
Registrado: 15 Dic 2018, 09:44

Re: Nuevo Test de Stanford / Ron Davis + Noticia El País

Mensaje por Raquelcy » 30 Abr 2019, 00:24


La verdad que esto nos da un buen chute de motivación para el día a día.
Cada vez más cerca.
La historia no la escriben los cobardes!! :thumbup:

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Hana
Mensajes: 538
Registrado: 29 Oct 2013, 04:36

Re: Nuevo Test de Stanford / Ron Davis + Noticia El País

Mensaje por Hana » 30 Abr 2019, 03:21


Gracias por la información, he llorado de emoción al leerlo.
Que gran noticia!!

Un abrazo!!
#MeAction #MillionsMissing #MillonesAusentes

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coco
Mensajes: 2509
Registrado: 10 Abr 2015, 18:47

Re: Nuevo Test de Stanford / Ron Davis + Noticia El País

Mensaje por coco » 30 Abr 2019, 11:50


Las fechas son actuales pero hace mucho que sabemos de esto. Unos 2 años.

¿Cual es la novedad?
MESTINON y L.D.N. es lo que me mantiene.

Ari
Mensajes: 398
Registrado: 13 Sep 2016, 22:13

Re: Nuevo Test de Stanford / Ron Davis + Noticia El País

Mensaje por Ari » 30 Abr 2019, 13:08


La publicación da credibilidad científica a la investigación. Ya sabemos que a veces se han explicado cosas que finalmente no se han sostenido científicamente

Como cualquier estudio piloto necesita ser replicado.

"En mi opinión" de todas formas lo que hoy conocemos como EM son en realidad distintas enfermedades con síntomas similares. Por lo tanto sería probablemente un TEST de PEM y que si un día llega a la práctica clínica evitaría la subjetividad en la calificación del CLINIC y que los que no podemos someternos a un Test de Esfuerzo podamos probar nuestra situación.

En cualquier caso Simon McGrath ha explicado algunas cosas interesantes en S4ME sobre lo publicado :

Patients were diagnosed "in line with Canadian criteria"; five severe, 15 moderate. Unfortunately, only five of the 20 healthy controls were age/sex matched, for some reason.

Chris made some good comments, including most of the above points, over at the Science Media Centre. Some fair points and some rather more desperate ones from the other contributors.

https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/...a ... ndrome-me/

Interestingly, using whole blood (the original plan) didn't pan out. They got better results by suspending PBMC's in either their serum or their plasma. Also, best results are obtained by testing within five hours of drawing blood.

However, they still got reasonable results at room temperature per 24 hours first, or freezing in liquid nitrogen.

However, this Version of the test doesn't look like a test that would be doable in a Dr's office. Separating PBMC's from the plasma would be a lab-based test.

Using the difference between the minimum impedance value and the plateau value gave the clearest separation, but they try different measures (such as using the baseline measure rather than the minimum) and all gave clear separation between patients and controls.

Likewise, they looked at several different impedance measures and all gave clear separation between patients and controls. Which makes it look like these findings are robust (over and above the spectacular P values)

Interestingly, most of the results from moderate patients clustered towards the bottom (with the smaller separation from healthy controls (while all of the severe patients were near the top. Suggesting that severity affects results, though these are small samples.

It looks like they were originally doing the Nanoneedle test and salt stress as a way of creating PEM at the cellular level and to deplete ATP, the cell's fuel, presumably as a good model for the illness. And then discovered that the differences between patients and controls were so spectacular that they should perceive this as a potential biomarker.

Also, numerous studies had shown that adding salt was a way of stressing cells/increasing energy demand, so this wasn't just a "good idea" they had but something based in the literature.

In trying to understand what's happening biologically, they suggested that the increase in salt concentration could lead to release of pro-inflammatory cytokines and changes in gene expression.

Interestingly, they used live microscopy to look at the cells during critical stages and experiment and could see no differences between cells visually.

Okay, so they are going to perform further experiments to try to understand the specific mechanisms underlying the results. And adapting the technology so that it could be used by clinicians as any skill level.

https://www.s4me.info/threads/a-nanoele ... 284/page-4

:abrazo:
When the full history of ME is written one day....we will all be ashamed of ourselves

Mar2
Mensajes: 39
Registrado: 14 Dic 2018, 23:56

Re: Nuevo Test de Stanford / Ron Davis + Noticia El País

Mensaje por Mar2 » 01 May 2019, 16:11


Imagino que necesitarán apollo económico para continuar y la concienciación de la necesidad de investigación y la credibilidad de este estudio, ayudaría a ello.


https://www.abc.es/salud/enfermedades/a ... cm-general

Ari
Mensajes: 398
Registrado: 13 Sep 2016, 22:13

Re: Nuevo Test de Stanford / Ron Davis + Noticia El País

Mensaje por Ari » 02 May 2019, 12:10


Comparto comentario de Nandixon en PR, como siempre magistral :

"They also found that pyruvate and (I think) lorazepam (Ativan) normalize the nanoneedle experiment as well. All of these drugs/substances share in common an ability to improve mitochondrial membrane potential (MMP), and I think that is what the nanoneedle is measuring.That possibility isn't mentioned in the latest study but I'm pretty sure Ron Davis himself suggested this a few months ago "

"Ron's device uses a microfluidic channel that's about 20 times smaller than the 2014 device. One implication of this may be that the cells within the channel of Ron's device are brought into closer contact with the sensors thus making it unnecessary to actually isolate the mitochondria in order to measure their membrane potential/impedance (although this may also depend on the frequency window used) "

"If it's true that the nanoneedle is measuring MMP then virtually any disease of any significance - multiple sclerosis, Alzheimers, cancer, diabetes, etc. - I think would be likely to show an impedance signal similar to what was found in the ME/CFS patients in the present study. So the nanoneedle would possibly not be diagnostic for ME/CFS but could still be useful to show something is wrong."

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads ... 073/page-3

Probablemente como dice Mar necesiten fondos para la investigación y esta es una forma.... de intentar conseguirlo.
When the full history of ME is written one day....we will all be ashamed of ourselves

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coco
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Re: Nuevo Test de Stanford / Ron Davis + Noticia El País

Mensaje por coco » 02 May 2019, 14:31


Creo que el enlace más correcto para pasar a la gente es este y no la prensa española: http://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2 ... d=66719226

Dejando esto a un lado... ¿alguien se ha parado a pensar en los ENORMES intereses que genera este estudio? Desde los gobiernos interesados en frenar un diagnóstico standarizado mientras no haya cura hasta las farmacéuticas probando cualquier cosa que funcione, añadiendo una inútil molécula diferente y pantentando. ¿Se os ocurre algo más? Creo que los posibles escenarios superan a mi imaginación.

Ya hay gente en PR probando las supuestas cosas que funcionan en el chachichip. En cierto sentido me consuela, ya que yo soy el kamikaze de este foro según ustedes :ud: , pero por ahí hay quien me supera. :meparto:

¿Creéis que lo de Cortene, o la suramina deberían funcionar en el chachichip?
MESTINON y L.D.N. es lo que me mantiene.

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